I fail to understand why DH would make our children have a relationship with someone that is so miserable to be around. I fail to understand why he would WANT to make his children be around someone who they don’t feel safe with. I personally don’t care if MIL is their grandmother, she's unpleasant and rude. Being a grandma is privilege and she has ruined her privilege. She doesn’t deserve to be their grandmother. The only reason I can see why DH insists on this is because DH is getting pressure from MIL to see them. MIL hates this. She hates this because she’s being told she can’t have something she wants. She doesn’t like being controlled.
When the girls were very young, babies/toddlers, I never saw any behavior from MIL that set off alarm bells. She seemed to care about them and was careful with them. We didn’t leave them with her a lot, and when we did, she usually came to our house. As the girls got older, they began staying at her house across the street while we were gone. Eventually those led to sleep overs and Grandma’s that seemed to go fine. She made pancakes for them in the morning and appeared to be engaging with them. I got no weird vibe that something was wrong.
Once the girls turned 6 and 8, however, I noticed a shift.
The girls began to whine about not wanting to go to Grandma’s house. My youngest would have a fit and not want to stay the night if MIL was watching them when DH and I had a night out. We’d have to talk to her on the phone, calm her down and eventually it worked out ok. I just took it as a new stage with her. I didn’t actually think something was not going well at Grandma’s. At least not then. But, things got worse and worse. And complaints about bad behavior began. Sometimes they’d tell us something that seemed not good. When we confronted MIL about it, she’d say it didn’t happen or that the girls misunderstood her or some such thing. Given their age, we believed her. But, the girls are now 9 and 11 years old and are definitely old enough to understand when something isn’t right and old enough to tell me what happens when they are alone with her.
The truth about what was going on at Grandma’s house started coming out in little dribs and drabs. They told me of situations where if they spent the night, she wouldn’t get her butt out of bed until 11:00 in the morning to make them breakfast or engage with them. She’d make them clean and do things instead of spending time with them, or she’d go shopping with them and then get mad at a sales clerk or waitress and be really mean to them or have an enormous fit in public and the girls would get really embarrassed. A few times MIL would see a heavy person and snicker and tell the girls “look how fat she is, she can barely walk!” Or MIL would pick on some handicapped person in front of the girls. My daughters are good hearted people and to watch their Grandmother do that, upset them. Sometimes MIL would promise to take them to dinner, and then would take them to a fancy inappropriate restaurant they didn’t want to go to just so MIL could have the type of meal SHE wanted. She’d drag them to art and museum functions under the guise of giving them some culture. It bored them to tears. What I realized later as what was really happening is that she went to those fancy adult restaurants so she could have wine at dinner or have the sample wine and food during the functions at the museum and dragged my kids along so she wouldn’t be alone. She didn’t give a hoot about their happiness or whether they had a good time with her. It was never about them!!
So many occasions MIL made terrible choices. Sometimes she would plan to have the girls come over to spend time with them and then invite her “friend of the moment” over when the girls were there. Instead of engaging with them, she’d ignore them and drink and smoke with her friend while the girls were bored to death. This happened a lot.
One time she promise the girls she’d take them to the movies. What really happened was she and her “friend of the moment” decided to go see “The Butler” (rated PG13) and dragged them along. They were 7 and 9 years old I was furious. It was NOT age appropriate. Sometimes I don’t know what the hell she was thinking. There was never any consideration about entertaining her granddaughters. It was about HER and what she wanted and what she wanted to do. It always has been.
I figured out the fancy restaurants ruse because of something she did. Again, MIL loved to have the girls get dressed up and take them out to some place fancy to eat. The girls didn’t want some place fancy to eat!! MIL did though and what mother-in-law wanted, mother-in-law got. She wanted company so she dragged along my children. One night she invited the mentally handicapped older daughter of a family friend and my two daughters out to fancy restaurant. When she brought the friend’s daughter home later that night, MIL put her car into the ditch in front of our friend’s house. MIL explained to us that she overshot the driveway and slid into the ditch because of the ice. We believed her. Later, we found out that wasn’t true. The friend of the family called and was furious because MIL was drunk and watched her stumble around the driveway and try and lie her way out of it. The friend’s husband pulled her car out of the ditch and the two of them brought everyone home, the husband driving MIL’s car. DH’s mother drove drunk with an 8 year old, a 10 year old and a 17 year old girl with Downs Syndrome in her car. SHE WAS WATCHING OTHER PEOPLE’S CHILDREN and didn’t give a shit that she was drunk. Once that happened, we never let our daughters go over to spend the night if she was driving them anywhere. She was not allowed. It was okay during the day. For whatever reason we didn’t think that was a problem. I think we were proven wrong. I wouldn’t have let her have them EVER AGAIN, but again. DH seems to think Grandma loves her granddaughters. I say the fuck she does!
It seemed like once my girls got to an age where they had an opinion and wanted to use it, things with MIL started going downhill. The girls didn’t want to go over there anymore. It wasn’t fun. And I think not only was it not fun, it was sometimes frightening. I don’t blame them. I have no idea what else was going on, but I can only guess. My girls are frightened of her anger. I’m pretty sure that she has raged at them when they questioned her or didn’t do exactly what she wanted.
MIL can get so vindictive and petty and part of her personality came out one night about a year ago when we went over to MIL’s house for dinner. MIL asked the girls to set the table and my Youngest announced “I want to sit next to momma.” Well, that didn’t sit well with MIL. The petty vicious bitch was jealous because my daughter wanted to sit next to ME! She told my Youngest, that she wasn’t allowed to sit next to me, she had to sit next to her. Youngest got very upset and told her Grandma that she wanted to sit next to me. Grandma told the grand daughter she claims to love so much that she was not going to and that because it was HER house, MIL got to set the rules as to where people sat. Youngest was NOT going to be allowed to sit by me. She made my daughter very upset. I tried to get DH to say something, but he wouldn’t. I was furious. I should have said something, but more often than not I was afraid, because my anger would have gotten the better of me. I told DH that his mother’s behavior was awful. That she was being mean and petty and upsetting her granddaughter and that she was digging her own “Grandma grave.” And she absolutely was. The girls don’t like her, for that reason and a million others just like the one above. I think Youngest sat by me anyway, I sat down right next to her and I was DARING MIL to say something, but the horrid dishrag was too cowardly to confront me.
MIL began being really bitchy a lot when she dragged the girls out shopping. If the girls saw something they liked, usually something small, they’d ask “Grandma can I have that?" Grandma would whip around and nastily utter “Do YOU have any money?” Of course they didn’t. It’s not as if I expected her to buy it for them. I don’t cave in to whatever they want either, but I’m not nasty in my refusal. There is no reason for her to act like that to granddaughters she claims “to love.”
One afternoon when MIL had the girls she stopped at little antique shop filled with pretty do-dads and fun things to look at. One display case had these tiny little coffee mugs with cute sayings on them that one could hang on a chain. They were .79 cents. Oldest didn’t have any money on her, but Youngest did. Youngest bought one for herself with her money. Oldest wanted one too. She saw a coffee cup charm that said “I [heart] my teacher” and wanted to get it and put it on a chain to give her to teacher. When she asked her Grandma of she would buy her one, the old “so, you have any money?” litany was trucked out again. Oldest said no she didn’t, and MIL proceeded to tell her that she wouldn’t buy her one. After watching all this go down, Youngest offered Oldest HER OWN money to her sister and said that she would by one for her. When MIL found out what was going to transpire she put the brakes on that and told Youngest that she was not to buy her one. Not even for .79 goddamn cents. MIL proceeded asked Oldest why she wanted one of those for anyway. When Oldest explained she wanted to give it to her teacher Grandma says spitefully “that’s stupid, she wouldn’t want one of those.”
So many instances I have like the above and yet DH still thinks it’s okay for the girls to be around this vicious woman. She’s rude, spiteful and emotionally abusive. She’s called them a “little shit” if they actually dared to have an opinion or called her out on the bullshit they no doubt saw. I’m quite sure, just like all narcissists, MIL sees them as beneath her and innocent enough to do or say whatever the hell she wants to. A few days ago I found this quote and I lost the blood in my head. This is exactly MIL.
Narcissists don't like to be questioned and don't want to deal with children who can stand up for themselves. It's common for some narcissistic parents to become more abusive toward their children when the children reach the age of reason (about 7 years old) or when the children enter into puberty, which many of these parents find very psychologically threatening.To me, this supports my theory that the shit started hitting the fan when the girls were 6 and 8 years old. This is when it started falling apart and it has continued to do so since then.
Here are few more stories.
Last Thanksgiving my niece flew in to town to visit and stayed with MIL. I was skeptical about how MIL was going to treat my girls once niece, who rarely visits, came to town. Niece is in her early 20’s and was going to be considered the “Golden Child” for coming to visit and help with MIL’s broken leg. MIL always treats those she is familiar with like shit when new, missed family members are around to dote on. The ones that help her, do things for her and are around when she wants them are relegated to “dirt on the bottom of her boots” status. I watch her do this to me on a number of occasions. True to form it happened. She wanted the girls to decorate a x-mas tree she had and when one of my girls dropped an ornament on MIL’s sterile, cold tile floor and it broke, MIL had a screeching fit, demanding that they clean it up, blah blah blah. Interestingly, when niece broke one MIL said “oh, not a big deal, that isn’t important.” This favoritism was noticed by my daughters and they told me about it.
At Christmas time I was quite convinced that Oldest was cluing in on her Grandmother and had already formed an opinion that she did not like her. I also think that MIL was feeling this resentment from Oldest and didn’t like it that Oldest was finally getting a clue about who MIL really is. MIL is beginning to understand that she is losing the control she once had with Oldest. Narcissists don’t like it when you have their number. They want to be superior, they don’t want you to know their failings.
On Christmas Eve this past year we had a full house of people including my family members. Early in the evening MIL sat across the living room from Oldest staring at her. Just staring at her like … I don’t know … like a zombie. My daughter motions me over to her and then whispered to me: “momma, grandma is staring at me and it’s scaring me. Make her stop.” I told Oldest to ignore her. I walked away, and then turned around so I could watch what she was doing with my own eyes. Without a doubt, she was drilling malevolent intent into my kid. It definitely was scary. A few weeks later while reading about narcissism I discovered something called the “Narcissistic Stare.” Here are a few quotes from readings about narcissists:
Narcissists indeed have a stare. It is an intense, relentless gaze that seems to preclude the destruction of his victim or target . . . The stare intends to invade people’s space either by their sudden intrusions or intimidating look-overs.
Some people respond to the emotionless stare of the psychopath with considerable discomfort. Almost as if they feel like potential prey in the presence of the predator. Whatever the psychological meaning of the stare, it is clear that intense eye contact is an important factor in the ability of the psychopaths to manipulate and dominate others.
Within the last few months before the big blow up on MIL’s birthday, things were definitely coming to a head anyway. The girls didn’t want to have anything to do with her. They don’t like her. But when MIL broke her leg in November things really took a dive. MIL couldn’t walk and couldn’t drive and she wanted everyone to pity her. She could not seem to hide her nastiness anymore. She began to get more demanding and horrible even with DH and he was reaching his limit of patience with her. It was at this time that we were, or at least I was, not encouraging the girls to spend time with her. Not that I needed to encourage them not too, but I certainly did not want them to be around her. After she broke her knee, we did have the girls help her with a few things every day that MIL could not do. The girls would go over to her house to scoop her cats litter box or do a few things to help. Of course, when they were done, they wanted to leave and come home. She’d tell them to stay that she wanted their company. They didn’t want to. As soon as they’d start to leave, MIL would burst into tears and tell them they were being mean to her. (Her words) She’d say “I’m nice to you, but you aren’t nice to me!” She’d sound like a five year old. She’d complain out loud “you don’t want me anymore! I’m just going to move away and everyone will be sorry.” It made the girls very uncomfortable and pissed me off because MIL’s emotional well-being is not the responsibility of my children. Screw her for trying to guilt them.
Again, my daughters do not like their grandmother. It has absolutely nothing to do with me. Grandma made her bed and she should have to suffer the consequences of her shitty behavior. But DH insists that the girls have a relationship with her because he says, “my mom loves the girls.” She does not. I don’t know what she feels, but she doesn’t feel love. She wants to control them, she wants them to do what SHE wants them to do and if they don’t tow that line, she treats them like crap. Grandma’s that love their grandchildren don’t endanger their lives by driving drunk. Grandma’s that love their grandchildren let them have opinions and feelings. Grandma’s that love their grandchildren don’t argue with them because Grandma is jealous. Grandma’s that love their grandchildren don’t humiliate them or others around them. Grandma’s that love their grandchildren get their asses out of bed to make them breakfast, not lounge (probably hung over) until almost lunch. Grandma’s that love their grandchildren do things that the grandchildren want to do, NOT what Grandma wants to do. Grandma’s that love their grandchildren respect their grandchildren’s parents and don’t talk badly about them. Grandma’s that love their grandchildren respect their grandchildren’s needs, not walk all over them.
How DH can say his mother loves the girls is beyond comprehension. So many stories, I can’t even get them all paper. I’m sad because this is what DH believes love looks like. This is what DH thinks is acceptable. This is the behavior that DH thinks is worth ignoring so that his mother can preserve her fantasy that she HAS some sort of relationship with her granddaughters. She doesn’t. It’s gone. She blew it. She lost them and by no fault of anyone else but her own. Since she is unlikely to change, the girls aren’t going to suddenly change their minds and want to like her. Forcing them to be with Grandma because Grandma believes she has a right to them is bullshit. I don’t want to do it. And I don’t know what to do.
DH has agreed to supervised visits with his mother when she returns from a trip in two weeks. Supervised is fine, but what fucking torture! He doesn’t want to be there and neither to do they. Why is he doing this?
MA, all of the examples you describe here are PERFECT reasons to keep your children away from their grandmother. Her behavior is appalling frankly. She is not only putting them in danger, but is emotionally and psychologically abusing them, as well as setting a horrible example. I think you need to take these examples to a therapist and let your husband here an unbiased opinion.
ReplyDeleteAlso, another thought, I would let your husband know that if HE decides to leave his mother with a woman who has clearly shown poor judgement (and not just to you but to the family friends) he is putting the children at risk of being taken by child protective services. If something happened in her care, CPS would hold YOU, as the parents responsible for leaving your children with an unfit guardian. Maybe that would scare him into taking some more protective action.
In any rate, I think you need to do what you need to to protect the kids. My NM was much like your MIL, in that she had less issues when my kids were little. (Although NM still had big red flags, using my son for her emotional needs, jealousy over my son showing anyone else attention or affection, becoming upset with my son if he didn't chose her first). But it got significantly worse when he got older and started to have his own opinions and thoughts (and would call her out on bad behavior. She would call him "little shit" too whenever he contradicted what she wanted or called her out. He would then tell me and it became a big issue.) She also started to set bad examples (teaching my son to lie, telling him it was OK to cover up mistakes, etc.) When I found out about these things, she started taking out her anger towards me for putting my foot down by acting out towards my son (she would blatantly favor my youngest, still does to a lesser extent, with gifts. Would find ways to criticize him and his character.)
And that stare...well, I've seen that one many times. My sister does it really well. My husband saw it once and was terrified of it. He said he'd never seen anyone's face turn like that.
Good luck. I hope you are making some progress with your husband.